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Resident to open carry group: Go educate Windsor Farms about guns

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RICHMOND, Va. -- A group of men who have been carrying assault-style rifles throughout parts of Richmond were back on the streets on Saturday.

The Right To Bear Arms Richmond's "Freedom Walk," passed by Creighton Court, one of Richmond's public housing neighborhoods, on Saturday.

olds

Creighton Court Tenant Council President Marilyn Olds

Several residents, like Creighton Court Tenant Council President Marilyn Olds, said they do not want the  group brandishing weapons in their backyard.

"Why would you come out here where we are to promote that we should have a gun?” Olds asked. "We hear gunshots seven days a week -- day or night. We don't need anybody coming through this property walking through with guns.

The Creighton Court resident is taking aim at more than just the violence in the area, but also the gun rights group.

"We are working on having a peaceful community to get rid of the guns, especially the illegal ones. We have enough of those out here,” Olds warned.

Organizers told CBS 6 reporter Sandra Jones that will march carrying unloaded rifles and other firearms from 33rd and Clay streets in Church Hill to Nine Mile Road, which is just outside Creighton Court .

The group said the demonstration's mission is to educate the public about their Constitutional rights, including the second amendment.

Phillip Van Cleave

Virginia Citizens Defense League President Phillip Van Cleave

"The idea isn't to remind criminals that they can kill each other, but to remind good people that they don't have to be subject necessarily to be murdered by these bad guys,” Virginia Citizens Defense League President Phillip Van Cleave said.

Van Cleave, who is not taking part in Saturday's march, argued that display will not promote more violence.

"I don't see that. In fact, if the bad guys know that a lot of the people that were disarmed before are now potentially able to protect themselves, they might think twice before making victims out of decent law-abiding people,” Van Cleave said.

Some people stopped to engage the group, but others were not so welcoming to the men who walked through the streets with their guns visibly strapped to their sides.

"I mean it`s pretty intimidating and it`s for no reason. You`re walking through a friendly neighborhood," said one woman.

Dean Starook was not happy about the march through his Church Hill neighborhood.

“It`s not necessary. Where were they in 1989 when bullets were flying and bodies were dropping? Nobody was here then,” Starook said. “What are they trying to educate us about? We know about guns. Why don`t they go walking through Windsor Farms or some other wealthy neighborhood? We don`t need this.”opencarrymap

CBS 6 News asked the organizer for an interview, but he and the group declined to speak on camera.

“When I talked to them I could see that they are regular people like you and me,” Darius Rattley said. “I think people should be able to do that.”

The gun owners did not  elaborate on why they chose Church Hill and Creighton Court, but as they handed out flyers and explained to neighbors they were there to educate people about their Constitutional rights.

The walk ended in front of the Creighton Court public housing complex without any incidents. And though the group was met with some raised eyebrows and stares – some neighbors said they had no problem with the group openly carrying assault-style weapons.

Richmond's Redevelopment and Housing Authority sent a letter to housing commissioners and Creighton Court’s Tenant Council president, along with her staff alerting them of Saturday's march. RRHA said it is legal for the group to carry the weapons into the neighborhood. However, Richmond police officers and federal officials were on hand to ensure the march remains peaceful.

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80 comments

  • Robbie

    Now I know these white guys are plum loco! You don’t walk around Creighton Court if you’re white. There are enough guns in that hood to arm a small country.

  • Glen Allen

    I don’t have a problem with the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. is planning a “Freedom Walk,” but why not just carry signs and literature? The guns in themselves serve no purpose, but they do make some people feel uncomfortable. I am all for gun rights but I don’t want to carry one, heck, I don’t even like to carry my cell phone much less a bulky gun. We live in a civilized society, this is moving backwards. If these people have so much time on their hands, there are many local volunteer groups that would love to utilize their energy to clean-up the community.

    • David

      Yes Indeed we do live in a civilized society but, That doesn’t mean that everyone is civilized.Besides I will not have you there to explain to a criminal that he can’t rob me because we live in a civilized society WOW! you need to be smarter than that Glen and Pat

      • rfrstormer

        David, while I agree that we are hardly civilized, we are no longer the Old West as well. We tried this in the past, and the old west did not turn out so well. While I admit that people were able to defend themselves, most people were lured into a false sense of security with their weapons, And when the bad guys came, they found themselves unable to pull the trigger until it was too late.

        I would really like to avoid the old west shootouts of the past, for the calmer more certain reality of today at this point.

      • Ed Pope

        David what you do is certainly your choice. I was not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. I was seeking an open discussion so that I can better understand why this is even necessary given the society as it stands today. You please do what you want, I will continue to search for good effective discussion vrs being told how I must feel.

  • dune boon

    I can’t believe ANYONE in Creighton court is uncomfortable around guns.If you are white in that area I highly recommend you keep it locked and loaded.

  • Doug

    Well that’s mighty white of them to March down to Creighton Court to educate the people in that neighborhood about guns. I suspect these dudes will be the ones getting an education.

  • mbaker9105

    Apparently the only problem they have is people with legal guns who have right to open carry, It seems to be the norm that when gun crimes are committed in some areas, the authorities can’t get much info, nobody saw anything or knows anybody. So apparently running around with non-registered concealed weapons (lots of times by convicted felons) is ok.

    • Ed Pope

      Well, I guess I could say that all black people are haters as well. But, we all know that is not the truth. Latosha, you must have had a rough life, and did not have any white people around you who cared about you. I am truly sorry that has happened. Take a chance at your church or where you work, and actually talk to some white people who do not care about your skin color. You will find that we exist. But, I know, until the idea of race is removed, this will keep on happening from all sides. So, just hoping that we can learn to love instead of hate across the world. (not likely in my lifetime) but maybe our children will have a better society.

  • Robo

    A group of dingbats.. nothing more..
    One would think they could find a better use of their time and energy.

  • rfrstormer

    While I do not think this is particularly bright, and I would feel uncomfortable with anyone around me holding a gun. This news story has once again bought them some attention on what they are trying to say. What they are pointing out is correct, but they could affect more people and cause a little less apprehension in the areas they are protesting by simply carrying signs. But, that would not be getting them the media attention that they are seeing now. So, in essence our interest in this is feeding their need to carry the guns.

  • John

    These guys have been very successful in getting media coverage. Almost every TV news and newspaper has done numerous stories about them. If that is how a movement can define success, then they achieved it. I personally could care less about this story.

  • Almerick Parker

    RE HAFNER: Well said…. besides all the negativity… its a right to carry regardless.. If youre that uncomfortable.. around a gun, wait until the shit hits the ceiling, you will wish you had a gun, or a legal gun holding individual by your side.. WATCH… its gonna happen……

  • rfrstormer

    I do own guns, however I still do not think it wise to bring guns to a public forum. I understand that someone could potentially take my gun, and then use it to hurt or kill others. In this day and age, carrying guns around is not necessary unless you fear for your life. Then, in that case, you should at least have proper training and permits. Otherwise as we have seen even with our police force, bad decisions can be made.

    Of course, all the training in the world will not stop someone from using a gun to hurt others. But, I do not agree that we as civilians should race to buy a gun so that we can be equal amongst the other gun carriers on the street. I have seen far too many people, become angry and take a swing at someone for something that was said. If open carry takes hold we could easily see that swing be a shooting spree instead. No need to get to that point. Just realize it is ok to have guns, but to use them wisely.

    Another point I wish to bring up. When someone shows up with a gun, someone that you do not know, how would anyone feel comfortable with that? I just do not see a need to open carry in Wal-Mart or similar area. Hunting, Range practice, no problem with those.

    • Manlishi

      ” I understand that someone could potentially take my gun, ” This is the definition (by admission) of an irresponsible gun owner.

      ” If open carry takes hold we could easily see that swing be a shooting spree instead.” That’s the same trash spewed from the mouths of democrats when the concealed carry laws were passed. Open carry has always been the law in VA so this “takes hold” snippet is an embellishment by liberal design.

      • rfrstormer

        I have been on this site long enough to see your history with others Manlishi. You tend to beat on them till they disappear or agree with you.
        In this case, that will not happen. My points are distinct and thought out, while you tend to favor sensationalism in your statements only seemingly to back up your own less than thought out logic.

        You stated:
        “” I understand that someone could potentially take my gun, ” This is the definition (by admission) of an irresponsible gun owner” If you truly consider a irresponsible gun owner to be someone who is aware that a gun can be removed from my person, then I truly think you have proven that if you are a gun owner, that you should be feared. You have no thought process as to someone potentially taking your gun from you, using it against you and your family, This is a sad day for you, as otherwise your arguments are somewhat balanced until now.

        You followed up with:
        “” If open carry takes hold we could easily see that swing be a shooting spree instead.” That’s the same trash spewed from the mouths of democrats when the concealed carry laws were passed. Open carry has always been the law in VA so this “takes hold” snippet is an embellishment by liberal design.” I would once again state that since you feel that it is ok to carry guns in public, that is your personal truth. However, when it comes to myself, I still see no reason to carry arms in public outside of defense. And having seen so many people hit others, or start fights for no real reason outside of a verbal slap. I find this direction to be unnecessary and certainly not socially accepted.

        Given that, once again, as I re-state myself. I am not against gun ownership, i just simply think that bringing them into a public forum is not necessary in our current society. Now if we would go Mad Max where everyone has a gun on their person, then I see the need just for defense against people who do not have your best interests in mind. But, the Mad Max world as I have envisioned above is something that I am working to keep from happening. The Old West is not that way for a reason, people simply feel safer without guns around them. Guns, unfairly balance things toward the Gun Owners who bring them into public locations, Think about it. If a man had a gun and you did not? Would you arque with him about something that he did incorrectly or wrong?

      • Manlishi

        “You tend to beat on them till they disappear or agree with you.”, ” verbal slap”, Seriously? And then use accuse anyone of sensationalism?
        “Name calling”? Please review and quote the name you were called. Given the “sensationalism” used above, and the pretentious injection of a ficticious name, lets adopt one so you can have validation. Drama queen would be accurate.

        “My points are distinct and thought out,”, ” then I truly think”, ” I still see no reason”, ” I find this”, That’s right, it’s all about your opinion. Your psyc meds must have been in full swing when you decided to drop Mad Max and the wild west into that self centered drama filled rebuttal.

      • Ed Pope

        Manlishi? You having responded this way simply makes my point – Thank You.

        You stated:
        ““You tend to beat on them till they disappear or agree with you.”, ” verbal slap”, Seriously? And then use accuse anyone of sensationalism?
        “Name calling”? Please review and quote the name you were called. Given the “sensationalism” used above, and the pretentious injection of a ficticious name, lets adopt one so you can have validation. Drama queen would be accurate.””

        This is what I mean by sensationalism. You come in after a carefully crafted response and up your anger in your response. Thereby making your initial arguments less valid as they are all emotional. In a sense I think you love seeing your response online and those who respond back to you with the same feelings. I was using the example of name calling for you being a social bully. You do not get your way and then you escalate until out of frustration people stop trying to be reasonable with you. Have fun with that with me. I am very patient. And your official name calling actually is entertaining to me. So thank you so much for calling me a Drama Queen (of course that is coming from you, who so far has no sense outside of Drama)

        You then stated/:
        ““My points are distinct and thought out,”, ” then I truly think”, ” I still see no reason”, ” I find this”, That’s right, it’s all about your opinion. Your psyc meds must have been in full swing when you decided to drop Mad Max and the wild west into that self centered drama filled rebuttal.”

        Once again – you have dropped from a well though out conversation to personal attacks. This is proving my point that you would rather attack then concede the point. Really Manlishi you are wasting time and effort here, but I thank you so much for proving my point with you.

        These attacks though are moving away from the point at hand. Why not try to answer some of the questions that I left for you, so that I can understand your point here, and why you feel the way that you do?

    • Bob Sadtler

      When I see a stranger carrying, I walk right up, shake their hand, and tell them, “Good for you. You getting any grief?”

      • rfrstormer

        Hey Bob, let me ask you since I was not able to get a good response from Manlishi. Why is this so important for your group? What are you trying to accomplish with carrying firearms in public> Do you understand why people are responding the way that they do?

  • big baby

    when are they going to march and educate their own neighborhood, first it was carytown, now the projects i think these goofballs just love the attention….

  • Chris Dorsey

    Philip Van Cleave is a cop/agent of the government who ignores Virginia Declaration of Rights, USA Constitution. he and his crew make lots of cash taking the less unconstitutional side of gun control issues.

    • Bob Sadtler

      Dorsey is cuckoo for coco puffs. Philip has not been a RESERVE deputy in decades. “Agent of the government?” Not the Philip I know. As an Executive Member, I get a fiscal report every July, and I can assure everyone that VCDL takes in very modest resources. I WISH we were raking in the dough.

  • mbaker9105

    Unless restricted on private property, the fact they are open carrying with legal firearms is no ones business but their own. How about we worry a little more about illegal firearms and the people who carry those (felons, the mentally ill, etc.) It would please some people and the Government(s) nothing more that to have their agencies the only one with firearms. it seems every agency has a badge and a gun, with the authority to arrest or shoot you.. This is what the founding fathers warned of. Go ask that girl from UVA who caused her trauma, someone open carrying or some low level poorly trained overzealous people in an agency that should probably not have badges and guns…..

    • rfrstormer

      Well, I do worry about illegal firearms and the various people who would use them. The problem that I have with your statement though, while I do agree with the fact that it is legal to carry as they do, I truly do not know them and if I saw someone with a firearm in public, I will call the police. Simply put, why should I trust them to do the right thing and not kill someone?

      If you can tell me that you would trust someone to carry a weapon in public while your child is near. Then, I would call you a fool sir.

      • David

        Do the right thing and not kill someone? Are you serious? I can tell by your many posts that you love yourself and no matter what anyone says you will not concede

      • rfrstormer

        David, given the threads that I have posted on, you may think that I “Love” myself as you stated. But, reality is that I am just trying to understand all the sides here. Because I ask some deep questions that require thought, sometimes the thread will seem long. I know I am long winded. I have many faults. But, I really do want to understand all the sides with articles of interest to me. After all, it is not just what I think, it is what we all as a society think. Correct?

        Dave sorry if I accidentally hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you, that was not the intent. So, if you want to explain why you think the old west style of shootouts etc is better than what we have now/ Please do. I am truly interested.

    • rfrstormer

      The point that you make is that of the NRA. Which I am a member. However, I do not agree with the government being happy about it’s citizens being without arms. In this case, carrying a weapon in public doesn’t help the NRA with this viewpoint. We can and should (if you want) to own weapons, but keep them at home. If there is an emergency, we can obtain the weapons from home, or if you have a permit from the vehicle.

      Simply put, there is no need to carry weapons into a store or near a public place unless you plan to hurt, maim, or Kills someone. What these guys are doing, might be the only excuse no matter how uncomfortable that I am with it. However, it will always make me nervous and the police will be called if I ever encounter this in public.

      • Manlishi

        “The point that you make is that of the NRA. Which I am a member.” Strange, I have yet to meet an NRA member (which I am not) that confesses to be as paranoid as you did in your previous post. It’s further confusing that someone would “call the police” over someone else’s rights.

      • rfrstormer

        Even though I am a member, I do not necessarily agree with open carry as I have noted. Since you have now met up with a happily paranoid NRA member, you can mark that off your list. (SMILE). And just because there is no law against open carry here in VA, this doesn’t mean that it is the right thing to do in a public place. As noted, guns have more appropriate areas of use. I ask you, what is gained by carrying guns into Wal-Mart in such a fashion? Nothing in my mind, except for being a social bully.

        Face the fact that Guns are scary for most people. Most people now do not need to hunt (food is plentiful), so the only real purpose for guns (for most people) is defense, Which we all hope to never have to worry about using them in that way. And if you are one of the few that are excited by that opportunity, well then you should not be owning a gun.

      • Manlishi

        “Face the fact that Guns are scary for most people” Yes, that would be by social engineering design aimed at weaker people. These would be the same engineers/traitors the second amendment was designed for to ultimately protect all other applications of the constitution and “we the people” as the last resort.
        http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/18/Holder-Fight-Guns-Like-Cigarettes
        Now i would contend that constitutional/civil rights goes a bit beyond “right thing to do” or “what is gained”. It’s even further confusing that you would attempt to rationalize your paranoid delusional opinion by mitigating your own position. Furthermore, insinuating that someone well within their right may be a “social bully” weakens your positions to an adolescent level. Just like calling the police because of your irrational fear of someones rights. I suspect you would call the police to spite another persons rights. At first i though you may have been smarter.

        it’s rather clear that mental cases should not, and legally cannot own firearms. Your paranoid/delusions are enough to warrant an intervention. I’m sure the NRA would agree.

      • rfrstormer

        Manlishi you are very interesting. I see that you have jumped up your game finally.
        You state:
        “insinuating that someone well within their right may be a “social bully” weakens your positions to an adolescent leve” Interesting that you should think this. Let me ask you, other than the “Open Carry” law, why would you carry a gun into a store with families? Is there a reason? Other than being a social bully? Please explain why this is valid and socially acceptable outside of the law?

        You continue to state:
        “Just like calling the police because of your irrational fear of someones rights. I suspect you would call the police to spite another persons rights. At first i though you may have been smarter.” Name calling will win no points with me, and simply shows that you are far less capable of a conversation that I would have hoped. If a person shows up with a Gun, that is not holstered and or otherwise protected from use (rifle covers) etc. Then yes, I will call. And, when I see a gun, I will keep watch on those people. I have had to call the police once, when I saw someone going down the street with a rifle aiming it at houses. I had the video to prove it, and that person was taken into custody. Later we found out that he was a felon and should not have owned the weapon.

        Once again, I understand that “Open Carry” is the law. But, I do not understand why it is needed today? In our current society? Please feel free to give me some good examples. And I might re-consider my point on this.

        Manlishi, I understand these are your feelings. Your world has driven you to these thoughts, and mine is completely different. I have reason to fear guns as I was attacked in college and robbed at gunpoint. And shot after I provided him my wallet and keys. And he was a licensed Gun Owner. Just making bad decisions. That gives me more than enough reason to fear someone with a gun in public.

      • dune boon

        The Harvey family is a good example of why guns are needed.If you lose the I’m gonna be victim aditude it would be a good start.

      • rfrstormer

        DUNE BOON The Harvey family will a horrible crime, would not have been stopped if people carried guns in public. The crime itself was in the Harvey Home.

        While I have stated that Guns should not be carried in public as the Open Carry people do. I do believe that they are a line of defense for the home.

      • Manlishi

        “I have had to call the police once, when I saw someone going down the street with a rifle aiming it at houses.’ Congratulations! You did the right thing….Kind of seems like a minimum standard. ” And he was a licensed Gun Owner” Must have been in some liberal infected hell. No license required in our state.

        ” Please feel free to give me some good examples. And I might re-consider my point on this.” Ummm,,,,I could start with the constitution. However you have made it rather clear that ones guaranteed rights are subject to your whimsical feelings. I do not try to determine which is worse, constitutional abuses or encroachment.

      • rfrstormer

        Wow Manlishi, you are indeed upset that I will not cave in to you. Looks like I am winning as well since you are moving to verbal slaps as I noted before.

        You stated:
        “”I have had to call the police once, when I saw someone going down the street with a rifle aiming it at houses.’ Congratulations! You did the right thing….Kind of seems like a minimum standard. ” And he was a licensed Gun Owner” Must have been in some liberal infected hell. No license required in our state.””

        I never stated that he was a licensed gun owner, I stated that he had been a convicted felon who should not have owned a gun. So, lets pretend that I had not called it in. Later that day, he shoots at a family, and kills a child (yes I know that may not have happened but this is pretend after all). Should I be happy that he used his right to brandish a weapon and then kill someone? Or do I act defensively and let the police know that someone is pointing a rifle (as I explained) at various houses as he moved down the street?

        Your logic fails me here, as there appears to be no logic at all with your discussion. You have failed me as well, as you are simply not as intelligent as I would have hoped..

        You later stated:
        ” Please feel free to give me some good examples. And I might re-consider my point on this.” Ummm,,,,I could start with the constitution. However you have made it rather clear that ones guaranteed rights are subject to your whimsical feelings. I do not try to determine which is worse, constitutional abuses or encroachment.

        Actually the constitution is a great example. However, it is all about the right to bear arms, which I am not saying I am against. I am simply stating that the need to “Open Carry” in today’s world in a public place is not necessary. So what is your argument against that? My feelings count, as that is part of the Constitution as well. As do yours. This is a simple debate that you obviously are taking way to personal. Please Chill, as I believe that once you do that you will have valid points to provide outside of your hateful tone.

        All that I have made clear so far from you, is that when people challenge your worldview you first beat them up with your spouted illogical points, and when they do not cave to you, they are then battered with various insults. This is how you win with your arguments. I do not care about what you call me. I know who I am. You do not. So please calm down, and explain your argument without vile and hatred.

      • Manlishi

        And so it turns out, RFRSTORMER is also ED POPE. Is that bipolar or schitzo? “chill, vile, hatred,cave”? The “sensationalism” ins’t my trademark, it’s all you.. Your the one freaking out with your anti-constitutional agenda. Any other constitutional/civil rights you wish to limit? Why stop at one?

      • Ed Pope

        Manlishi. You are correct, I certainly was not trying to hide my name like yourself here.

        You stated:
        “And so it turns out, RFRSTORMER is also ED POPE. Is that bipolar or schitzo? “chill, vile, hatred,cave”? The “sensationalism” ins’t my trademark, it’s all you.. Your the one freaking out with your anti-constitutional agenda. Any other constitutional/civil rights you wish to limit? Why stop at one?.”

        Once again you attack with anger. I am not freaking out, in fact in all likelihood you are at this point. Your actions certainly prove my point. I have asked you many times to prove your point. You have failed each time, and since you sense your failure you are attacking like a animal boxed in against a wall.

        I ask you to please chill out, respond with facts versus your veiled attempts of using the constitution as a battering ram

      • rfrstormer

        LATOSHA WILLIAMS I know it is easy to give in to his hatred. No need to call him names as he does us. I see that he is a troll with very little good going in his life so he acts out his frustrations on those aground him. It is likely that he had a gun and is defending his right to own it. Our discussions here will do little to persuade him, as he refuses to listen to anything outside of his world view. Thanks for getting though your input would be more appreciated if you did not call Manlishi names however.

      • Manlishi

        “I have asked you many times to prove your point.” I refuse to capitulate to any anti-constitutional liberal. Again, you despise ones rights. Anger? hate? You confuse me with those upset with the guys from the story line. If it helps, you may always go to their location and “call the police” as your paranoid delusions consume you. Or is it just spite, again?

      • rfrstormer

        MANLISHI,I do not despise anyones rights. I have asked you many times to explain your point, and many times you have failed to offer anything more than the Constitution. Which I have stated to you was a good point, but provided you with feedback that you choose not to answer.

        I am not against you here, I want to understand why you feel the way that you do. The fact that you are not answering, and hiding behind your anger tells me that you have not thought out your reasons for believing in “Open Carry”. The Constitution is a fine starting point, but where in the document do you think it applies to “Open Carry” Please just don’t raise the Constitution by itself and say that answers everything. Do you understand that amazing paper?

        You stated:
        ““I have asked you many times to prove your point.” I refuse to capitulate to any anti-constitutional liberal. Again, you despise ones rights. Anger? hate? You confuse me with those upset with the guys from the story line. If it helps, you may always go to their location and “call the police” as your paranoid delusions consume you. Or is it just spite, again?”

        You know you assume that you know so much about me, to let you know I am actually Republican. But, if you are an example of where the Republicans are now, I might entertain the idea of moving to be a Democrat as they at least are showing more sense currently than yourself. I guess that would mean that our respective votes would count each other out. I am actually ok with that in this particular case.

        Actually I have already discussed the issue with them, they are far more polite and respond with some good points. Either way, I would still call the Police on someone with a gun, that will not change. Remember as I noted earlier I was attacked myself, so that gives me due reason to be concerned/ Maybe you have not had this issue in your life. I hope that you never do

      • rfrstormer

        MANLISHI As I stated earlier the Constitution is a good point, and is why we have “Open Carry” laws. However, you cannot seem to explain why this is valid to do in today’s age? Remember I am not against owning guns, I just want to see people respect the weapons vrs taking them into public forums where people can and have been hurt. Heck Vice President Cheney even with all the security around him shot a family friend by accident. It was a mistake, which I would prefer not to happen in a public forum.

      • rfrstormer

        Manlishi the constitution around as if it makes everything right. You have yet to state in any of the various responses why you feel that “Open Carry” is ok? You just wave the constitution, which tells me that you are incapable of stating more than one thought deep arguments. At least in my responses I have shown why I am thinking this way, you simply wave the constitution without additional thought.

        I know you mean well, but with the exception of one moment, where I thought you might be about to string a thought together, you have largely been uninteresting to discuss this issue with. I know you can do better, just do not let your anger get in the way of your thoughts as you have done here on the board.

  • doc jameson

    “We hear gunshots seven days a week — day or night.” Well – evidently – they have nothing to lose by trying something different. Doesn’t sound like Creighton Court Tenant Council President Marilyn Olds’ plan is working at all!

    • rfrstormer

      The city has already agreed that the current plan in place for putting low-income families into concentrated areas around the city has not worked well at all. You can note the same in other major cities around the world. Something has to be done about it I agree, but current plans are dubious and concerning at best. We, however now know that this doesn’t work. The next step is likely to be better. Although I am certain that no matter what we will do, that everyone will be pleased with the outcome or costs of the efforts.

  • rfrstormer

    I will say that at the very least this group has opened good discussion on the rights of Open Carry and the issues surrounding the law and it’s implications. Perhaps, I being someone who believes that most people are good at heart is wrong. But, I will believe in our society over government rules every time.

  • Right to Bear Arms Richmond, VA

    You’re all welcome to your own opinions and beliefs, and we appreciate the dialog as we’re all about exchanging ideas and educating people about their Constitutional rights while empowering others to do the same. We do not believe these rights are dependent upon color, culture, or creed. We are of one race, the human race. Anyone who says otherwise does not speak for us and wishes to spread a fictitious viewpoint that is not accurate on how we view people on the basis of people’s character’s merit.

    While our members may open or conceal carry firearms at their discretion and in accordance with law, our larger message is educating people about their several enumerated Constitutional rights and government limitations, so that no one may take advantage of them. We believe that if the masses were properly educated, which really takes nothing more then reading our constitution and supreme court case law, we’d have more people standing up for themselves and each other and having fewer people being taken advantage of. As one of the great minds once said “An enlightened citizenry is indispensable for the proper functioning of a republic. Self-government is not possible unless the citizens are educated sufficiently to enable them to exercise oversight. It is therefore imperative that the nation see to it that a suitable education be provided for all its citizens – Thomas Jefferson. We encourage anyone who is unsure of what we do, or who may have questions, to reach out to us directly, as media and those who disagree may wish to disseminate false information.

    https://www.facebook.com/righttobeararmsrva
    The Right to Bear Arms Richmond,Virginia

  • Lisa

    I am a strong 2nd amendment supporter, and think these open carry semi-auto long guns is counter productive.

    My husband has a concealed carry permit and is always armed.

  • rfrstormer

    Nice to see you guys here finally, as I stated it was good to see animated discussion of the issue at hand. My concern though is that you guys are empowering people who may not have our best interests in mind.

    I think you guys realize from the response that you are receiving that carrying firearms openly is not getting a positive response from most people. It makes it harder for the police and for people like myself who has been attacked with a gun. It is obvious that it is generating the attention you need to drive people to your page. And after looking over the page, you are representing issues outside of “Open Carry” which I applaud. However, I worry that people will start emulating you, which will actually hurt your cause here. As my concern is that people emulating you, will sense the new power that they have over others and react to confrontation in a horrific way. I would much prefer to see you fighting with signs vrs. the method you are using now.

    Good luck to you all, I hope this ends well for you.

    • dune boon

      I support open carry but would never use it.For the Harvey family I believe a unconcealed weapon would have made the killers move to better pickings.From a self defense standpoint if someone really wants you the weapon goes first.The element of surprise is a good weapon.

      • rfrstormer

        DUNE BOON – I understand your belief, but I personally do not think that an unconcealed weapon would have made them necessarily move on to better pickings. There are reasons that they were targeted by the killers. To give you another view, think of the old west. While guns were needed by everyone, it still did not stop people from killing others when they wanted their belongings or just generally killing those who were in their way.

        My point overall is that killers with guns will always be killers. While people who are not killers, well.. a gun may end up nothing more than a club (as non-killers may not pull the trigger and is more often than not to happen that way). I have a policeman friend who has since retired. He stated that more times than he would like to admit (being he was a gun advocate) that the guns used in home invasions were those of the people who owned the home.

        We as a nation have already seen the issues behind “Open Carry” in our past. It was not a good result, although it made for some excellent stories and movies. I think it is fine to own guns, just not good sense to bring them to a public place. This could honestly change, if something should happen to our society where chaos rules. Right now, that is simply not the case.

    • Manlishi

      “A empty gun is just a stick idiots” Agreed. It seems a bit odd to march to educate on constitutional rights, yet be PC about it. On the other hand, An unloaded weapon would prevent, legal reprisal if some irrational hate monger decided to press unwarranted brandishing charges.

    • rfrstormer

      I agree with you Carrol, the gun without bullets is just a stick. The problem with that viewpoint is that bullets (you need only one) can be carried easily in a pocket or similar item, and then the gun can be used. No matter how you look at it, the gun is a weapon. How would you feel if someone came into your bank with a gun?

      • rfrstormer

        MANLISHI feelings should not be a part of what is being discussed? It is a big part of it for me. And I have taken the time to discuss this with people in a mall. People I had no way of knowing. Almost 100 percent .. Actually one person and his GF agreed with the fact that it was ok to carry guns in public area. I took time to do that this evening, talked with over 129 people as they passed through the food court. I had friends help me flag them down and entered the discussion if they chose to do so.

        Have you taken the time to do something like that? Nope, you state that it is all me, and that is not the case. Of course I admit that this is hearsay. You were not there, (well unless you were that person with his GF).

        As I have sated in the previous points, we tried this once. It was called the old west. We are better than that now.

  • Manlishi

    Based on posting times alone, I call B.S. on your “mall” trip. But i expect that type of grandstanding embellishment from a progressive democrat. Must be a “feel” thing. I wonder if the old west was like that too?

    • rfrstormer

      Ah Manlishi, you must be showing your lack of proper thought here. You know they have those wonderful new fangled devices called Tablets with internet access. I can post when and where I want.

      You keep calling me a democrat, which is interesting I am really more of a republican, but I admit that I have voted for independents as well. Of course you use that term as an insult, which tells me that you only vote party line at this point. You probably love FOX news, and believe everything the media feeds you. I can see that you are not capable of a good discussion. This conversation has regressed to you acting like an animal. I am sorry for you, as you are capable of so much more.

  • rfrstormer

    Manlishi just do me a favor. When you see someone carrying a gun, and choose not to act because of our conversation and your stubbornness. Please take time to assess the situation and assure that the person is of sound mind and not with murderous intent. If he does not seem capable in your mind of using a gun soundly, then please please call the police. If you do not, then it is your choice. But, unless you are a bad person, I suspect that you care about those around you enough to be at least concerned when someone comes around you and your family with a gun.

    • manalishi

      “democrat, which is interesting I am really more of a republican,” Actually your not Ed.
      “Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Boycott Rush Limbaugh’s Sponsors to SHUT HIM DOWN., Stephanie Miller Show, Americans for Responsible Solutions, Daily Kos, Flex Your Rights” from your own page. Your just the sterotypical progressive democrat that i correctly labelled earlier. Of course with all the usual traits, dishonesty, Fantasy embellishments, delusions of granduer, ect.

      • rfrstormer

        Yep, and that is why I am more balanced. Neither side is right. Back to name calling I see. Well, the only good thing about your responses to me are that you have failed to make your point. And in doing so, you have shown that you rely on name calling and just repeating past statements without any thought. Once again, expected more from you. Rush certainly would not be proud of your actions.

        BTW just because I happened to like KKD, doesn’t mean that I agree with them. To take that reference from a page that I hardly visit. I am not a facebook fan after all. At least I am not hiding behind an alias like yourself.

        Either way, this conversation has devolved into such a sad state. I was hoping for more from you Manleasti.

      • manalishi

        I intentionally left out compulsive liar, Rachel Maddow stalker, and sniveling crybaby. Democrats are all the same, hence Ed Pope on rope. Bon apetit!

      • rfrstormer

        You know I have really tried not to bow down to name calling. And I will continue to do so. You have chosen name calling over discussion. You are the reason we need a government. If you were in charge, well let’s say that would be a very sad day for any government. Since you will only continue the conversation with name calling. I will not continue any conversation with you, you will be politely ignored.

        I would also politely suggest to anyone who knows Manalishi, (sounds indian) that you verify that he doesn’t have a gun. As I do not believe that he is in his right mind at this point in his life.

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